MLP New Leader

[yancho]

Some esponents of MLP, naming Licaro and Norman Hamilton, said that this election should be private to just the Labour people.

Let's make this clear : It is a NO NO! There is a big chance that next election MLP's leader will be the leader of my country, the Prime Minister and I and the rest of us have full right to discuss this option.

I, and I hope that such an idea will start moving on also in the PN's area, think that all Party Members (it-tesserati), should have a vote in the Leader's choice. Such an election should not be limited to the "tribe" as described by Varist, of Delegates.

Most probably this election is a farse, since it is almost certain who will win the election, its Sant's poodle, who I am so much afraid of his decision making capabilities. Looking at TimesofMalta.com, alot of people want George Abela, the same site that showed that they have 71% trust in Gonzi. MLP's market is not the 47/8% who has been stable since 1992 but the floating voters and especially the NEW voters (PS : For Mr. Pepsodent Smile, as Described by Wenzu Mintoff last Sunday, it is 34000 not 17000 new votes). Wow he really was prepared for this election, than you see Sa**** and his team, changing their propoganda every day (not to say hours). And Mr. nice smile, didn't even know his market. Well done!

This is what MLP should look at, this is what they need to start realising. The decision you are taking is not just a decision of who will lead the Lions of Change (as described by Michael Falzon) but it may very well lead to who gives direction to Malta.

Many are blaming Sant for such failures, yet Sant tricked you quite well. He has made up a team of his own, Zrinzo accepting every decision, the two co-leaders, firing accusations such as "DNA hazina", Mr. Pepsodent, and his loyal MEP, Muscat. These all have to resign, first and foremost the mind of the electoral campaign, Mr. Natura Ambjent, as nicknamed by Tony Abela.

Jason was sure MLP is winning, he even went out early in the morning saying that a Party won with an Absolute Majority, wow man, you need some Mathematics skills. To complicate matters, he made this statement with such a huge smile, that poor MLP die-hards enterprited this as a win. Little served the punch in the eye late Friday evening from some of his inner circle who he told them that they can bet money and quickly realised that things will turn bad but it was already too late.

The Sant era has to end. Sant era was also an overleap of Mintoff's era. Remember Sant was the President of MLP under Mintoff's atrocities, so the new leader should be a person who is ready to clear things up.

These are my views on the prospective leaders :

Joseph Muscat : He is by many seen as Sant's Poodle (first nicknamed so by Daphne Caruana Galizia), now its the pun everyone is using. Funnily enough it is true. He always agreed with what Sant wanted the party to agree. He has never had an opinion of his own. This is what this guy said in 2002 :

“Would I consider going out for general elections? Definitely not. You see, I have another theory that to stand for the general elections you must be either a robber, a missionary or just plain crazy. I don’t think I’m any of these. And I don’t really like the local system where you find yourself standing against candidates who have the same ideology as you do.”
Source : Malta Today - 6, January 2002

I can tell you mates, this quote will hunt Mr. MEP and European Paladin for his career. Also how can this guy prepared his 15 year plan for leading MLP in just 10 days, and he also is instructing the delegates on who to vote as his co-leaders - respect for the Statute 100%. On his side it seems that Jason will remain there, such a new labour! Ow, and you guessed Zrinzo will move out? Sorry mates, you're mistaken here too!

Evarist Bartolo : Personally it wouldn't bother me alot seeing him as the leader or MLP, but then again, he had his dark history too. He has been in politics far too much under Sant, and has never contradicted him in public. He even wished to try his chance as a leader back in 2003, but refrained since he still "was still the best person" - quoted from Sunday Times. He is a person who says he doesn't like "tribes" and "niche" groups in the party, so I guess he will try to re-unite the party.

Anglu Farrugia : Short and sweet : Forget it :) A police superintendent under Mintoff's era, a person who served under the Police Commissionaire who was sent to prison due to atrocities, and a person that when he speeks he has to show terror, is surely not the face for the new labour. Thanks but go continue trying to find some proof of your false claims that PN bought votes, and continue making U-turns about your proof.

Michael Falzon : The Socialist person, who wants to be like Joe Debono Grech and Mizzi. He said every socialist should look up to them, in the 2008 era. Ehh.. still living in the past mate! Had it been he was born 20 years earlier, Michael would have been an extremely good politician for those times, too bad he was born too late. Times has changed, ideologies have changed, population has changed, economy has changed. The new MLP has to look at the Middle-Class and stop looking at the Working-class, (words taken from Evarist's interview with Sunday Times).

George Abela : Partigianistic talking : Hope not, but speaking as a responsible citizen : Hope yes. He is the only decent candidate there is for such a post. He had the courage to go against Sant and his team of double faced people. He warned MLP that they are going to do a mistake going to early elections in 1996, he said he would resign if they do, and he fulfilled his promise. He is truly a person who confronted Sant's era, alongside the great Economicst, Lino Spiteri. George Abela would surely introduce Lino Spiteri back to the scene, and I can feel assured that his decisions would be good options for the country. Remember: Lino Spiteri didn't know agree with the VAT removal and had to continue with Sant's game until he was fed up. George Abela was also the president of MFA, and under his presidency it went quite ahead too, he is a man with vision. His portfolio also takes him to the area of the lawyer of the GWU, so he knows the employee's view quite well too. The problem is this, he is against Sant, there is everyone against him. Jason Micallef, in a very mature and admirable way, has straight away put hurdles for him in Xarabank, when he made it public that he wishes to bid for elections. Ehhhh dear Jason, how much of a failure to politics you are!

Hope this post helps rise some decent discussion about the new leader of MLP. Again I stress the fact that this should be a discussion for all the citizens interested in Politics and in their country. The more MLP remains secluded and far fetched from the electorate the lesser the chances it has to win another election. So better start opening your ears to what us, as die-hard PN have to say about how we see your party, and also make sure to listen well to the wish of the floating voters. Remember also that your mere 48% will start decreasing as time goes by, elderly people start dying, so you better start aiming to increase that percentage.

Some of the ideas discussed here were inspired from www.daphnecaruanagalizia.com

NB: These are my personal views, and have nothing to do with the PN.

PS : Please excuse my English - am really tired to proof read it :D

[PeR0XiDe]

I think your criticism of Joseph Muscat is a bit too negative. Anyone in MLP can be accused of being Sant's Poodle, same as anyone in PN can be accused of being Gonzi's Poodle. He did say that there were issues he disagreed on with Sant, and sometimes they had a falling out even on public (though I never personally witnessed this).

I for one like the way Joseph Muscat speaks. On Bondi+ yesterday he answered questions in a clear and polite way. You don't know that he was planning the 15 year thing these last 10 days. Maybe (and probably) he had been planning it for quite a while now.

This Jason thing is quite strange, seeing as Il-Mument reported that Jason and him had a falling out recently. Still Joseph Muscat did say that he's ready to work with anyone, and is ready to invite anyone, even those who have been shunned before, back to MLP.

I like Joseph Muscat. He speaks well, and does seem ambitious. He's also young, with a lot of experience in the EU field, meaning that he may have a lot to offer.

Regarding the "allowing tesserati to vote" issue, I agree 100%. This guy is going to lead MLP, as such, all of MLP should have a say in it. With just a couple of people allowed to vote, the democratic process becomes more inneffective, not to mention that MLP is known for having a lot of tribes as Evarist put it, hindering even more the democratic process of electing a new leader.

[wolverine]

Joseph Muscat is surely a good option

Mintoff's atrocities??? WTF like what?? (i know you'll mention many but i hope not just some bullshits many mention)

and....why in hell PN people should have a say in this??? to choose the worst leader to have an easy victory?? Gorg Abela will probably cause separation in the party and you can keep telling on that he froze the EU application (it was him, right??)

again did MLP have a say on the choosing of Gonzi??

[johnmaclane]

and the PN propaganda machine starts the media assasination.

[Cereal Killer]

Joseph Muscat : He is by many seen as Sant's Poodle (first nicknamed so by Daphne Caruana Galizia)

Oh please.............If we're gonna start handing out nicknames like this should we then call Mrs. Caruana Galizia the Scary Bidnija Witch Of PN right?


Back to topic - You surely are expressing your hate towards the MLP & Joseph Muscat. He must be considered as the best canditate for the MLP leadership considering his skills in both local & EU politics. He is not close minded as some die-hard nationalists think he is, period.

Anyways if you wanna start calling him Sant's poodle, I will be more than happy to start naming some of Gonzi's poodles too....

P.S. - Yancho, before posting about "Mintoff's Atrocities", please do not refrain from informing the public that our dear PM's uncle, the famous Bishop Gonzi, was the one who provoked your so-called atrocities. Dear me...have you forgotten what he did back then?

[sphinx042]

Joseph Muscat is too young too lead in my honest opinion although 5 years from now would be a different story, so I cannot conclude on Joseph Muscat personally i like him and could get the lead for MLP.

About Abela personally i don't like him and if he is leader! you can start calling me a nationalist cause I won't vote 4 him 4 sure. I kind of disagree with you yancho when you speak such negative words on SANT and I still don't know why? lets not talk about the refferendum becuase i would agree with you on every point... but about the 1996 election Spiteri, mintoff and Abela acted foolish imo and downgraded SANTs credibility to rule the country.

[scarface]

Yancho, did the PN "tesserati" vote for Gonzi as a leader ?

[ki||fr0g]

We still haven't seen all the possible candidates announcing their decision, yet the PN media already starts the negative campaign. Same old PN, same old Government I guess. And some of the major MLP opponents aren't even in the PN media but in the "independent" english journals.

Calling Joseph Muscat Sant's poodle is ridiculous. First of all, if a party elects a leader, then the whole party has to pull the same rope and support that leader, for better or worse. It is only after electoral defeat that we start seeing the cracks. So anyone can be called Sant's poodle because everyone supported their leader before his resignation. This happens in all parties, hell that's what a party is about. People like George Abela who felt very strongly against the current leader resigned, and they did well.

Now obviously some people would be more closely tied to the leader, namely the deputies and the secretary general. So they should resign and we shouldn't see them again in leadership posts. But calling for the resignation/termination of MEPs, the president and so on is wrong. The president has no power in the party, and the MEPs are quite independent of the party itself.

You cannot elect a leader that does not appeal to the majority of your supporters. That is why I rule George Abela out, and he knows that if only delegates vote, he stands no chance. Many Labourites feel betrayed by him.

I think Jospeh Muscat is the best choice.. he has charisma, he speaks well and to the point, and has valuable EU experience with an impressive track record of accomplishments, such as the cheaper roaming mobile phone rates enforced throughout the EU, which he had spearheaded. He appeals to a very large majority of Labourites, appeals to the floaters, and will eventually start turning the heads of the moderate PN supporters who are obviously pissed off at their party. No wonder the PN propaganda machine has already started the work to kill him off, and push George Abela since he will appeal to a smaller base of supporters. Yancho's post clearly shows the fear that the PN have of Muscat.

The rest of the candidates are either too close to Sant or too 80s minded to succeed in today's political climate.. except maybe for Marie Louise Coleiro who would make an excellent deputy leader. Throw in someone like Chris Cardona or Gavin Gulia as the other deputy and they would be a very formidable team.

[Cereal Killer]

No wonder the PN propaganda machine has already started the work to kill him off, and push George Abela since he will appeal to a smaller base of supporters. Yancho's post clearly shows the fear that the PN have of Muscat.

...........yancho don't you think this type of media propoganda is getting old now? Is it only Labour who need to change their faces/tactics? I fear not....

[Pirvy]

Personally i'm hoping Michael Falzon gets it, i just feel drawn to him. Joseph Muscat seems like a solid candidate and many moderate MLP supporters seem to want him strongly so that much count for something.

my 2c

[Cereal Killer]

Personally i'm hoping Michael Falzon gets it, i just feel drawn to him. Joseph Muscat seems like a solid candidate and many moderate MLP supporters seem to want him strongly so that much count for something.

my 2c

he is young, talented, mature, makes good speeches and has charisma which is mostly important.

[filthy hippie]

joseph muscat seemed a tiny bit arrogant as bondi said. but hes got charisma. unlike

[Cereal Killer]

joseph muscat seemed a tiny bit arrogant as bondi said. but hes got charisma. unlike

u dak adu introfuction biss. kemm at iridu jaqlawlu mux dik il proboganda kolla!

[yancho]

and the PN propaganda machine starts the media assasination.

I explicilty said it is my opinion and not that of PN

Joseph Muscat is surely a good option

Mintoff's atrocities??? WTF like what?? (i know you'll mention many but i hope not just some bullshits many mention)



You know on which atrocities I am mentioning :)

and....why in hell PN people should have a say in this??? to choose the worst leader to have an easy victory?? Gorg Abela will probably cause separation in the party and you can keep telling on that he froze the EU application (it was him, right??)


An election is not a football game : It is not important who wins, but the one who wins knows how to govern. That is why it is so important that both parties give their best selves to the judgement of the electorate.

George Vella froze the EU application. Man you ought to know your candidates. This might help you more : http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/2008/03/19/n10.html

I see George Abela as the most similar men of all these to PM, which as we know has alot of trust from Malta, and as MaltaToday rightly says, he is the best contendant for MLP to compete against Gonzi's Presidential campaign. The fact that G. Abela resigned puts PN in a very bad situation to attack his history, since with his resignation he showed that Sant's governance was not to his liking. G. Abela has extremely close tights to EU, through MEUSEC and was also thanked twice by EFA in meetings for his work.

again did MLP have a say on the choosing of Gonzi??

Anyone can discuss - this IS freedom of speech.

Yancho, did the PN "tesserati" vote for Gonzi as a leader ?

Unfortunately NO... but then again, it is an extremely valid point raised by George Abela, and I hope PN, fulfill Joe Sa1iba's words : Yes it is a very good idea, and we need to start taking it into consideration.

We still haven't seen all the possible candidates announcing their decision, yet the PN media already starts the negative campaign. Same old PN, same old Government I guess. And some of the major MLP opponents aren't even in the PN media but in the "independent" english journals.

If you are referring to Daphne, she never said she is independent :) I still need to see an MLP hater as her. If you like to read maltatoday.com.mt .. if I remember well you said that this is the only site that is independent, most of what I said compares well to there too (PS i just read it this morning).

Calling Joseph Muscat Sant's poodle is ridiculous. First of all, if a party elects a leader, then the whole party has to pull the same rope and support that leader, for better or worse. It is only after electoral defeat that we start seeing the cracks. So anyone can be called Sant's poodle because everyone supported their leader before his resignation. This happens in all parties, hell that's what a party is about. People like George Abela who felt very strongly against the current leader resigned, and they did well.
Its the nickname he got, quite hard to get over it now. Remember there was also Lino Spiter who left, then there were others like Evarist who didn't like the Governance yet remained there.

Now obviously some people would be more closely tied to the leader, namely the deputies and the secretary general. So they should resign and we shouldn't see them again in leadership posts. But calling for the resignation/termination of MEPs, the president and so on is wrong. The president has no power in the party, and the MEPs are quite independent of the party itself.
Partly agreed, the President is the body moving the party, his ideas should be in close tight with the Segretary and with the Leader. Zrinzo should resign too, but I guess he can also present his call again to be re-elected. MEPs are not that quite independent, they are representing the party. Also remember Casa's case. We all know he is gay, yet he RIGHTLY voted against himself in what the Party wanted him to vote. I said rightly because he is representing the PN electorate, and their views.

You cannot elect a leader that does not appeal to the majority of your supporters. That is why I rule George Abela out, and he knows that if only delegates vote, he stands no chance. Many Labourites feel betrayed by him.
Thing is Sant has his die-hard followers still in the Party. With those people I am sure G. Abela's votes can be counted on one palm. A re-shuffle in the delegates is necessary too. In PN grounds, this shuffle is going to happen. In some months time, even the KSPN's delegates will be reshuffled.

No wonder the PN propaganda machine has already started the work to kill him off, and push George Abela since he will appeal to a smaller base of supporters. Yancho's post clearly shows the fear that the PN have of Muscat.
Since G. Abela is closer to PNs political views, it is obvious that I personally will prefer him to some young guy. Do you think seriously that Joseph Muscat will be able to hold guys like Joe Debono Grech, Varist, George Vella etc? He is much younger than them, he has little to none experience in leading, and with the team of young people he wants, it will be even worse. Experience in politics is a must. Look at Gonzi. First year he was not that good. Banning of cigarettes in closed spaces? Uturn against another for example. But he quickly learnt to make a stance for himself, and this at such an age. Let alone half his age.


The rest of the candidates are either too close to Sant or too 80s minded to succeed in today's political climate.. except maybe for Marie Louise Coleiro who would make an excellent deputy leader. Throw in someone like Chris Cardona or Gavin Gulia as the other deputy and they would be a very formidable team.
M. Louise Coleiro never really attracted me .. you mind giving me some info (seriously no pun intended) why she would make a good deputy leader. If Muscat is Leader, he wants CC and GG with him.

...........yancho don't you think this type of media propoganda is getting old now? Is it only Labour who need to change their faces/tactics? I fear not....
PN will change its faces too. The whole Council will reshuffle, and also the delegates voting in the Council. PN and the rest of the media has full right to discuss the Political History of all the candidates.

Personally i'm hoping Michael Falzon gets it, i just feel drawn to him. Joseph Muscat seems like a solid candidate and many moderate MLP supporters seem to want him strongly so that much count for something.

my 2c
Michael Falzon is too socialist :\ Joseph Muscat already took it for granted he is the new leader - so charismatic and humble of him!

[Cereal Killer]

Joseph Muscat already took it for granted he is the new leader - so charismatic and humble of him!

ajma jahasra........................................... ............:frusty:

[ki||fr0g]

Thing is Sant has his die-hard followers still in the Party. With those people I am sure G. Abela's votes can be counted on one palm. A re-shuffle in the delegates is necessary too. In PN grounds, this shuffle is going to happen. In some months time, even the KSPN's delegates will be reshuffled.

I agree that it should not be just delegates who vote but also registered party members. This is what happens in the USA and it works imo. But the typicalLabourite would never support a candidate who "abandoned" their party when they really needed him. From a moderate point of view he is probably the best choice yes, but you cannot cater for the middle ground.. alienating their own support would be suicidal.

Since G. Abela is closer to PNs political views, it is obvious that I personally will prefer him to some young guy. Do you think seriously that Joseph Muscat will be able to hold guys like Joe Debono Grech, Varist, George Vella etc? He is much younger than them, he has little to none experience in leading, and with the team of young people he wants, it will be even worse. Experience in politics is a must. Look at Gonzi. First year he was not that good. Banning of cigarettes in closed spaces? Uturn against another for example. But he quickly learnt to make a stance for himself, and this at such an age. Let alone half his age.
No experience in leading? He is widely respected by the European socialist group and has led a number of proposals in the EU parliament. He is also the Vice-Chairman in the Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs. Maybe he doesn't have experience for local politics but as you said yourself, he would get better, and he has 5 years to do so.


M. Louise Coleiro never really attracted me .. you mind giving me some info (seriously no pun intended) why she would make a good deputy leader. If Muscat is Leader, he wants CC and GG with him.
I don't like her a lot but she is very popular with everyone, just look at her vote count from a mixed district. I don't see her as a leader but definately would make a good deputy. She has very good social policies and family values, and that's the way she manages to get all the votes, by working directly with people in her district.


Michael Falzon is too socialist :\ Joseph Muscat already took it for granted he is the new leader - so charismatic and humble of him!

Michael Falzon is a bit of a die hard and a relic of Sant now.. he would be of no challenge to Gonzi. Jospeh Muscat hasn't taken anything for granted, that's your PN propaganda talking right there.

My choice would be Muscat followed by George Abela and Evarist. I think any of them would be able to take on Gonzi.. they have charisma and will attract floaters and disgruntled PN supporters. But Muscat is the only one that has a wide base of MLP support and also middle ground support.. which is why the PN is already attacking him more than the others. Is it not evident? They started before the election itself with their supporters like Daphne.

[johnmaclane]

I think joeseph muscat, will finally bring to malta the european flavour of the Reformist left, something new to the islands which is i believe better then any other faction on the field.

[Drowen]

and the PN propaganda machine starts the media assasination.

totally agreed! il-birah rajt Bondi+ u literalment, l-PN mbezza mmens minn Joseph Muscat. Imsiken ghandhom l-favourites ta, ara opponent ta partit uwix se jisugerixxi leader li kapaci jwaqaw mil-gvern. ironikament, dit-thread itellat mil-aktar persuna li m'ghandux ghalfejn jidiskuti dat-topic, ma nahsibx li ser tamillek differenza yancho :)

[ki||fr0g]

Ha taghmillu hafna differenza anzi, alfej tahseb li ga ntefa kontra Jospeh muscat mil-ewwel post? Ghax jafu li Muscat se jniggizom wahda sew, mhux se jkunu jistaw jibqaw ghaddejin bil-propagadna li l-MLP ghadom EU sceptic jew li ghadom fi zmien l-80s jew li ghandom leader jaghmel U-turns bl-addocc. Ah imma l-Yancho ga qalalna quote ta Muscat mit-2002 biex jiddiskreditah fuq opinjoni tieghu li ghamel 6 snin ilu.. oops u-turn number 1!

[yancho]

Drowen : Yes it does affect me, almost as much as you. However yes I accept that it is your party choice to vote, but I have full right to discuss your future too. We all know that next election will be the hardest for PN, much harder than this one, where at least we had something to fight with : A NEW leader. Whenever there is a new Political leader, floating voters tend to go for him. No need to be a sky rocket scientist to realise it. I just want to feel safe that both parties have the right man to do it. I just want to be assured that I am choosing the best of two worlds, not the only best. Yes I want that MLP have decent proposals, not writing what we have done in the past, like Sant did in his proposal.

Almost agreed with all your points killfrog, except the fact that George Abela, in my opinion, has a bigger chance to attract "disgruntled" PNers, since he went all out against Sant, whilst Muscat remained there.

Also I'd like to discuss this point too :
From a moderate point of view he is probably the best choice yes, but you cannot cater for the middle ground.. alienating their own support would be suicidal.
It is true, but do you see it as I do that MLP supporters are more die-hard than PN ones? Statistically speaking MLP has always got the same percentage in the lost Elections, whilst it was the PN who was moving up and down. So it seems that in 15 years, whatever Sant and his close circle were saying, MLP supporters remained almost constant. I tend to make the conclusion that whatever the party says they will be backing the leader, so I guess it is time for MLP to start looking with a broader look at the general electorate. My same views are shared by Evarist , Anna Abela(?), Wenzu Mintoff, George Abela.

[yancho]

Ha taghmillu hafna differenza anzi, alfej tahseb li ga ntefa kontra Jospeh muscat mil-ewwel post? Ghax jafu li Muscat se jniggizom wahda sew, mhux se jkunu jistaw jibqaw ghaddejin bil-propagadna li l-MLP ghadom EU sceptic jew li ghadom fi zmien l-80s jew li ghandom leader jaghmel U-turns bl-addocc. Ah imma l-Yancho ga qalalna quote ta Muscat mit-2002 biex jiddiskreditah fuq opinjoni tieghu li ghamel 6 snin ilu.. oops u-turn number 1!

Effetivament ma hix ha tigi Uturn :P Ghaliex ha jigi co-opted fdin il-legislatura u imbghad mhux ha jfittixhom hu l-voti, pero ha jkunu lesti bhala : l-vot lil-leader ;)

[AiRMaFiA]

Joseph Muscat : He is by many seen as Sant's Poodle (first nicknamed so by Daphne Caruana Galizia), now its the pun everyone is using. Funnily enough it is true. He always agreed with what Sant wanted the party to agree. He has never had an opinion of his own. This is what this guy said in 2002 :

Source : Malta Today - 6, January 2002

I can tell you mates, this quote will hunt Mr. MEP and European Paladin for his career. Also how can this guy prepared his 15 year plan for leading MLP in just 10 days, and he also is instructing the delegates on who to vote as his co-leaders - respect for the Statute 100%. On his side it seems that Jason will remain there, such a new labour! Ow, and you guessed Zrinzo will move out? Sorry mates, you're mistaken here too!


MLP didnt manage to plan for this election in 5 years... u il-PN kulma ippjanaw meta kienu fil gvern kienu ghal ahhar 30 gurnata ta qabel l-elezjoni... (hemmhekk l-iktar li rajt movimenti - tarmac "gdid" u iktar affarijiet biex jilaqghu in nies)

I will personally get an MLP membership and vote for this guy as If he managed to plan 15 years in 10 days... I wonder what he can do in 5 years ;)

[ki||fr0g]

Also I'd like to discuss this point too :

It is true, but do you see it as I do that MLP supporters are more die-hard than PN ones? Statistically speaking MLP has always got the same percentage in the lost Elections, whilst it was the PN who was moving up and down. So it seems that in 15 years, whatever Sant and his close circle were saying, MLP supporters remained almost constant. I tend to make the conclusion that whatever the party says they will be backing the leader, so I guess it is time for MLP to start looking with a broader look at the general electorate. My same views are shared by Evarist , Anna Abela(?), Wenzu Mintoff, George Abela.

True, MLP supporters will probably go with whoever is elected, but with George Abela they are risking a bit more. Both Muscat and Abela appeal to me, one is young and has energy, the other is experienced and has done a lot of work for the country. But you mention that EFA used to praise Abela during meetings, well he also allowed Mintoff to speak more during the troubled 1998 parliament.. obviously to the PN's advantage. So I do not agree with you that Abela will appeal more than Muscat to PN voters, he may have had their 'support' before but it was opportunistic, not real.

[rekY]

totally agreed! il-birah rajt Bondi+ u literalment, l-PN mbezza mmens minn Joseph Muscat. Imsiken ghandhom l-favourites ta, ara opponent ta partit uwix se jisugerixxi leader li kapaci jwaqaw mil-gvern. ironikament, dit-thread itellat mil-aktar persuna li m'ghandux ghalfejn jidiskuti dat-topic, ma nahsibx li ser tamillek differenza yancho :)


yep ezatt u ilni nejda min mindu irrizenja sant di , nista nassigurak l min jisugerixxu l pn l iktar wihed li jistaw jaqalaw spins u nejk fuqu.

[Drowen]

Drowen : Yes it does affect me, almost as much as you. However yes I accept that it is your party choice to vote, but I have full right to discuss your future too. We all know that next election will be the hardest for PN, much harder than this one, where at least we had something to fight with : A NEW leader. Whenever there is a new Political leader, floating voters tend to go for him. No need to be a sky rocket scientist to realise it. I just want to feel safe that both parties have the right man to do it. I just want to be assured that I am choosing the best of two worlds, not the only best. Yes I want that MLP have decent proposals, not writing what we have done in the past, like Sant did in his proposal.

Iva, imma x'igifiri tghid Joseph Muscat mhux tajjeb ghal leader? Joseph Muscat JAF jitkellem, JAF kif jindirizza hafna hafna issues, u intom qedghin tibzghu immens minnu! Infatti, il-WE u hafna mill-PN qeghdin jissugerixxu lil George Abela, l-aktar kandidat li ma jridux hafna mil-MLP supporters. Komplu ifirhu b'Gonzi u daqsekk, la mhux se tamlilkom differenza kif tivvutaw, tisugerixxu l-ebda leader tal-MLP. Naf li qed nkun kontroversjali fi kliemi, imma emmini, l-istrategija kif tirbhu elezzjoni ma nistax ghaliha, u qed niqfila minn issa. Diga qed tipjanaw leader tal-MLP, l-aktar wiehed li tistaw thamguh!

[Screwhead]

Iva, imma x'igifiri tghid Joseph Muscat mhux tajjeb ghal leader? Joseph Muscat JAF jitkellem, JAF kif jindirizza hafna hafna issues, u intom qedghin tibzghu immens minnu! Infatti, il-WE u hafna mill-PN qeghdin jissugerixxu lil George Abela, l-aktar kandidat li ma jridux hafna mil-MLP supporters. Komplu ifirhu b'Gonzi u daqsekk, la mhux se tamlilkom differenza kif tivvutaw, tisugerixxu l-ebda leader tal-MLP. Naf li qed nkun kontroversjali fi kliemi, imma emmini, l-istrategija kif tirbhu elezzjoni ma nistax ghaliha, u qed niqfila minn issa. Diga qed tipjanaw leader tal-MLP, l-aktar wiehed li tistaw thamguh!

Int mhux ANTI-PN - Neutral voter? Mela laqqas int mandek dritt tindahal flaffarjiet tal MLP.

[Cereal Killer]

Int mhux ANTI-PN - Neutral voter? Mela laqqas int mandek dritt tindahal flaffarjiet tal MLP.

mur orqod :)

[Drowen]

Int mhux ANTI-PN - Neutral voter? Mela laqqas int mandek dritt tindahal flaffarjiet tal MLP.

kemm int bla sens. anti-pn, mela nista nindahal f'ta l-mlp. neutral, mela still nista nindahal fl-affarijiet tal-mlp. qatt ma ghidt li ma nivvutax mlp, mela ur point huwa bla sens...

[Screwhead]

kemm int bla sens. anti-pn, mela nista nindahal f'ta l-mlp. neutral, mela still nista nindahal fl-affarijiet tal-mlp. qatt ma ghidt li ma nivvutax mlp, mela ur point huwa bla sens...

Sib quote fej tajd li Yancho QATT mhu ha jivota mlp :)

[scarface]

Yancho l-affarijiet li ghidt fl-ewwel post tiek, jirriflettu l-opinjoni tiek u ma nistax nghidlek tajjeb jew hazin. Pero ma narahiex fair li "tikkmanda" lil partit ta' kif itella l-leader tieu. l-MLP mamul mis siggijiet li hemm fil-parlament, u ghandhom dritt jiddeciedu kif jridu l-leader. It-tesserati jista jkunu PN supporters for all you know!

[Avaloner]

Some esponents of MLP, naming Licaro and Norman Hamilton, said that this election should be private to just the Labour people.

Let's make this clear : It is a NO NO! There is a big chance that next election MLP's leader will be the leader of my country, the Prime Minister and I and the rest of us have full right to discuss this option.



MLP should elect a leader that is in the best interest of the party. If they decide to do this privately its their choice. Yancho, you can give your opinion as much as you want - its your right in a country with freedom of speech, but you cannot expect to dictate what the party should and should not do. The point that this leader can, in the future, be the prime minister is moot, since you decide that matter further on (in five years time) not now. If they get a leader which you like vote him. If not keep voting PN. Its as simple as that.

Ultimately its in the best interest of the party to keep a good eye on the publics opinion.

Regarding who should resign - my opinion is that anyone involved in the proceedings of this electoral campaign should resign. If the new leader then feels that the individual who resigned is still valid he should reappoint him. If not then he should appoint someone else who is better fit for the job.

Will keep on reading the loger posts now.



Joseph Muscat : He is by many seen as Sant's Poodle (first nicknamed so by Daphne Caruana Galizia), now its the pun everyone is using. Funnily enough it is true. He always agreed with what Sant wanted the party to agree. He has never had an opinion of his own. This is what this guy said in 2002 :

Source : Malta Today - 6, January 2002

I can tell you mates, this quote will hunt Mr. MEP and European Paladin for his career.

Here we start with the character assasination: Daphne started this nickname. He is not seen by many as Sant's poodle. He is seen by a few as Sant's poodle but you are talking as if there is a consensus. This nickname has been used in the media often recently but its not the general opinion of the public - so please don't speak as if it was.

Also regarding that quote that should haunt J. Muscat for a long time... what does it prove? Let me tell you that Gonzi too was asked if he would like to pursue a political career when he stopped being speaker. His answer was that he had no intention of involving himself in politics. Should this haunt him for the rest of his life? No - people have a right to change their mind on such issues.

[scarface]

Yancho l-affarijiet li ghidt fl-ewwel post tiek, jirriflettu l-opinjoni tiek u ma nistax nghidlek tajjeb jew hazin. Pero ma narahiex fair li "tikkmanda" lil partit ta' kif itella l-leader tieu. l-MLP mamul mis siggijiet li hemm fil-parlament, u ghandhom dritt jiddeciedu kif jridu l-leader. It-tesserati jista jkunu PN supporters for all you know!

[johnmaclane]

Some esponents of MLP, naming Licaro and Norman Hamilton, said that this election should be private to just the Labour people.

Let's make this clear : It is a NO NO! There is a big chance that next election MLP's leader will be the leader of my country, the Prime Minister and I and the rest of us have full right to discuss this option.

This one is pure gold, so its ok to discuss other parties internal policies but when a PM is appointed no one says anything..

I have no idea as to why this internal elections is making such big news on PN and "neutral" media, i think there are more important issues on the table such as constitutional amendments to pass to make PFP more applicable as well as maybe a new voting system, public transport and liberalizations.

[wolverine]

even if im a labourist who am i to decide who should be the leader??? i don't know all about the candidates, no one knows better than the mlp party candidates themselves
if they think they acted bad then they'll get rid of the bad ones
but again mrs caruana galizia WTF "There is a big chance that next election MLP's leader will be the leader of my country, the Prime Minister and I and the rest of us have full right to discuss this option." x dritt anda din :@ ahjar tara kif tallem lit tifel kif igib ruhu quddiem il cameras :P :D

[scarface]

This one is pure gold, so its ok to discuss other parties internal policies but when a PM is appointed no one says anything..

I have no idea as to why this internal elections is making such big news on PN and "neutral" media, i think there are more important issues on the table such as constitutional amendments to pass to make PFP more applicable as well as maybe a new voting system, public transport and liberalizations.

Good point m8 !!! If they want to discuss internal elections of another party, then what should have been done in case of an application which affected Malta's neutrality ?

[yancho]

john / scarface : two wrongs never did something good .. failure to discuss something doesn't give right to fail to discuss another.

drowen / wolverine : the election of a political leader is an important event in a duopolistic democracy system, so it affects me alot. if you guys are happy waving the red flag whatever your party is saying, without care about the other party, then it is not the way to deal politics. as much as everyone here knows my political stance, and you know how convinced I am with my party's policies, I am a person who loves politics in general. I am extremely interested to read and analyze alot of interviews by all parties, and candidates. To put it in a war quote : you have to know better your enemy to prepare the best strategy.

The delegates are NOT just the people with a right to vote. The Statute of MLP (and PN) is that every local committee has some delegates which then + the administrative body of the party + the elected candidates in the Parliament have the right to vote. PN internally is working to elaborate this to a wider electorate, and PN won the elections, shouldn't MLP learn from the mistakes.

Maybe just a few of you know, but the Political parties have an extremely interesting history of each of you voters. We would have a very clear picture what type of person you vote etc, so believe me, if I as a die-hard PN, would go and pay my membership with MLP, they would know that it is just a buff. The other way round happens too :)

Avaloner : but you cannot expect to dictate what the party should and should not do. .. agreed, I am not dictating anything. I am blogging about my own views and how I deem that MLP is doing wrongly. If every person that tries to pass on an advice (especially the ones in the media) is presented with : It is not your business, then do not come and complain afterwards that the media sides against MLP, coz it would be the harvest that you prepared. You does not mean you Avaloner, but MLP :)

What I saw so strange about George Abela was yesterday, that no one spoke to him during the 31st March celebrations. The rest were all in the "klikkek" yet he was left alone. Such a waste of talent! You think PN has alot to go against George Abela? He refused to follow Sant's views, what can we attack him on? Politically speaking if he re-enters the party, he is a new page, unlike the rest of the others.

[johnmaclane]

john / scarface : two wrongs never did something good .. failure to discuss something doesn't give right to fail to discuss another.

drowen / wolverine : the election of a political leader is an important event in a duopolistic democracy system, so it affects me alot. if you guys are happy waving the red flag whatever your party is saying, without care about the other party, then it is not the way to deal politics. as much as everyone here knows my political stance, and you know how convinced I am with my party's policies, I am a person who loves politics in general. I am extremely interested to read and analyze alot of interviews by all parties, and candidates. To put it in a war quote : you have to know better your enemy to prepare the best strategy.

The delegates are NOT just the people with a right to vote. The Statute of MLP (and PN) is that every local committee has some delegates which then + the administrative body of the party + the elected candidates in the Parliament have the right to vote. PN internally is working to elaborate this to a wider electorate, and PN won the elections, shouldn't MLP learn from the mistakes.

Maybe just a few of you know, but the Political parties have an extremely interesting history of each of you voters. We would have a very clear picture what type of person you vote etc, so believe me, if I as a die-hard PN, would go and pay my membership with MLP, they would know that it is just a buff. The other way round happens too :)

Avaloner : but you cannot expect to dictate what the party should and should not do. .. agreed, I am not dictating anything. I am blogging about my own views and how I deem that MLP is doing wrongly. If every person that tries to pass on an advice (especially the ones in the media) is presented with : It is not your business, then do not come and complain afterwards that the media sides against MLP, coz it would be the harvest that you prepared. You does not mean you Avaloner, but MLP :)

What I saw so strange about George Abela was yesterday, that no one spoke to him during the 31st March celebrations. The rest were all in the "klikkek" yet he was left alone. Such a waste of talent! You think PN has alot to go against George Abela? He refused to follow Sant's views, what can we attack him on? Politically speaking if he re-enters the party, he is a new page, unlike the rest of the others.

Imma your just plain gold ta, i dont know what metric you use but it sure as hell is lacking.

The election is going to be in june, so why start bitching about it now?

Now you say its very important who gets elected, well yes i give you that. The fact remains that it is an internal party exercise , you dont effect it, the main reason people like you are jumping the MLP election bandwagon so fast is to start the 5 year process in which every single mishap or miscalculation will be pointed out and ridiculed at so that PN can get their next election and continue with their business.

This political posturing is disgusting, really to start talking and making predictions now? and to start throwing shit at all the leaders now? when will the lies end?

Im interested too in what happens but to make it sound like its the end of the world is nothing but super lame when we have delicate positions on the table that i mentioned before.

This hyper discussion over MLP leadership is only to the advantage of PN, anyone with 1/3 of a brain knows that, especially given the number of mines PN has already stepped on.

[ki||fr0g]

What I saw so strange about George Abela was yesterday, that no one spoke to him during the 31st March celebrations. The rest were all in the "klikkek" yet he was left alone. Such a waste of talent! You think PN has alot to go against George Abela? He refused to follow Sant's views, what can we attack him on? Politically speaking if he re-enters the party, he is a new page, unlike the rest of the others.

Your love for George Abela brings a tear to my eye. I look forward to your opinion on him after (if) he is elected MLP leader. Your love and respect will be even greater, I'm sure.

[wolverine]

Yancho if george abela leads mlp will you consider voting mlp, since you like his policies so much?? NO, so why you want to choose him?? simply because many of mlp will not accept him, if you like him so much you'd be sorry to lose his advices to pn

also no one pn/mlp was given the choice about appointing gonzi as PM yet he WAS appointed
i don't support the idea of voting by the tesserati. mlp didnt say that it won't elect the leader by this way. if they do it that way i'll still think wrong

happy waving the red flag whatever your party is saying
min henn al JPO xhin qabzitlu d dema???

jien kontra jason micallef's idea to elect by vote(miniex inxejjirlu l bandiera)

[yancho]

Truth be told, I wouldn't be ready to vote no, but I'd be ready to keep a step backwards from convincing my floating (really floating) friends of not voting MLP. This election I admit, I really almost asked them a favour to go out and vote, and vote PN and some of them ended up in a very harsh convincing session.

And that is what I told them : For this one vote PN, if MLP has a decent leader next one, I will not even try to bring up the argument again. .. and I stand to keep my promise with them. One of them told me that her first liking will be George Abel by all means and that if he wins, I should consider her as an MLPer, since it will be definately a vote to MLP

also no one pn/mlp was given the choice about appointing gonzi as PM yet he WAS appointed
wrong - PN were voting for the leader, and he was already in the Government, he was not co-opted :) Joseph Muscat will be like Karmenu, co-opted in the Govt.

Kif tisgurexxi li jigi elett l-kap? Pinpointing ta fingers?

[Avaloner]

Let us be blunt here. Neither you (Yancho) nor Daphne really care who is elected. Even if it is God himself you still would not give the vote to MLP. So this begs the question: Why all this interest?

The answer is, I believe, simple. Its because, in speculating, calculating and opining you can start shadowing and dirtying the candidates and the whole electoral process. The PN does not sling mud. The PN says things in such a way that, to the general population, it appears as indisputable fact.

At the end of the day both you and Daphne require the MLP leader to be a bad one, who gives the PN a sporting chance of winning the next election. The character assassination (similar to that which took place with Sant) is even more crucial here because you will have a disadvantage at the outset in the next election (for the reasons Yancho outlined very well in a previous post). Time is of the essence - there are only five years to go - and so you start the process BEFORE the new leader is chosen.

[wolverine]

lele pinpointing ta xejn jien miniex nissuggerixxi xejn
jien qed najd ma naqbilx mijek li pn andom ikollom say jew ma jason micallef li jivvutaw it tesserati (ax hallejta barra fl ahhar line)

also by pn/mlp i meant the public supporters (while appointing gonzi)

also l mlp MPs ma kellomx say biex jazlu prim ministru, il ala andom tal PN jazlu l kap tal oppozizjoni???

Gorg Abela qas m uwa fil gvern, so he must be co-opted too??
jekk tal pn iridu l gorg abela fl ahhar mil ahhar dan mhux mahhom se jahdem imma mal laburisti alekk il laburisti ghandom jazlu u tal pn jharsu
u sincerament ma nahsibx li joseph muscat se jamluh leader

Even if it is God himself you still would not give the vote to MLP TRUE so why bitching?

[PeR0XiDe]

Truth be told, I wouldn't be ready to vote no,

Wth? I think that mentality kindof sucks.

If MLP were proposing things better than PN, I wouldn't think twice about voting for them.

Suppost, when you vote in a general election, you vote for how Malta will benefit. Malta f'qalbek, mhux il-partit.


Nasal li anki jekk ikunu qed jipproponu l-istess affarijiet nivvota MLP fi spirtu ta' bidla (ghax ejja nejduwa kif inhi bidla hija important u essenzjali, la darba mhux se tkun bidla al aghar).

The only way I'm voting PN next election, is if MLP propose some dumb shit like the 50% surcharge bullshit or lies about benefits of reception class. I believe and hope that with a new leader, MLP's lame way of doing things will end, and maybe we can see a general build-up of progress; that the new MLP leader won't be a "No" a priori like it was before.

[scarface]

Wth? I think that mentality kindof sucks.

If MLP were proposing things better than PN, I wouldn't think twice about voting for them.

Suppost, when you vote in a general election, you vote for how Malta will benefit. Malta f'qalbek, mhux il-partit.


Nasal li anki jekk ikunu qed jipproponu l-istess affarijiet nivvota MLP fi spirtu ta' bidla (ghax ejja nejduwa kif inhi bidla hija important u essenzjali, la darba mhux se tkun bidla al aghar).

The only way I'm voting PN next election, is if MLP propose some dumb shit like the 50% surcharge bullshit or lies about benefits of reception class. I believe and hope that with a new leader, MLP's lame way of doing things will end, and maybe we can see a general build-up of progress; that the new MLP leader won't be a "No" a priori like it was before.

Now thats an open minded post dude :)

Still it is too early to say : "the only way im voting PN"

[wolverine]

altough i think 50% surchurge cut isnt bullshit (unless you dont consider raising an option when oil goes further up) i'm happy to see that certain people who strongly supported pn will change

but i have to admit that even if i dont know yancho and from his posts i think he's kind of involved with pn, it would be ridiculous if one of them joined mlp, so i didnt expect a yes and i wouldn't believe him if he said yes

likewise i'd never vote pn while there are still those people who think they're upper class, better and unable to do mistakes supporting pn and trying to shame labour supporters

and hopefully the new upcoming leader will attract the middle class and some of those pn people are leaving pn or resigning

[AiRMaFiA]

Maybe just a few of you know, but the Political parties have an extremely interesting history of each of you voters. We would have a very clear picture what type of person you vote etc, so believe me, if I as a die-hard PN, would go and pay my membership with MLP, they would know that it is just a buff. The other way round happens too :)


Maybe just a few of you know, but the Political parties do buy votes in any elections... so this will not be a really good idea after all... and you said that its not a good idea yourself before the elections dude. There are many ways this can screw up... It can screw up with the normal system ahseb u ara jekk jkun hemm iktar nies involuti.


PN internally is working to elaborate this to a wider electorate, and PN won the elections, shouldn't MLP learn from the mistakes.

imo no party can teach the other party anything right now... they both suck... and the vote difference confirm this.

[ki||fr0g]

wrong - PN were voting for the leader, and he was already in the Government, he was not co-opted :) Joseph Muscat will be like Karmenu, co-opted in the Govt.

So will George Abela, what's your point? See your intent is just to cast a dark shadow over Joseph Muscat because he's the candidate the PN doesn't want.

Come on mate.. admit it, you only care about the best possible MLP leader in terms of what benefits he brings to the PN. You know your party will be lucky to last 5 years in govt let alone win the next election.

[Avaloner]

Co-opted... please define. I really am not sure what it means.

[haNfus]

Yancho I Think your opinion on George abela is way too wrong .. Some PN would say George abela is good and labour would defenetly be in goverment if he was the leader .. but in my opinion... What kind of patriot are you? when the party was in a crisis you decided to leave the boat.. now that things need to be changed and there is a chance for power .. you arise from death.. NO thanks.

Joe muscat is Firm and aiming for a vision. and the way he expressed himself Bondi said it is similar to Gonzi. regarding the 15 year Vision Joe spoke about he said it clearly ... "I have a vision that I always dream about while sitting at the MEP" so it is not a 10 day plan. to be completely honest i see him a bit too ambitious but maybe thats a good sign aswell. and while mentioning bondi.. He asked Joe muscat if he is going to be an MEP aswell while leading the party and gave me the impression that it was impossible doing both at the same time .. Bondi PLS ask the same question to Gonzi. leader PN, Finance minister, MEPA(not the clan :P), Primeminister, One man army?

regarding the others well i dont see them in leadership .. Falzon has to many on his mind and i dont think he is as strong minded as Muscat is. And i think the idea of young leader sounds good.. but thats my op.

[PeR0XiDe]

Co-opted means that the guy is put in parliament even if he didn't get any votes from a general election. For example, the extra MPs PN needed to have a seat majority in parliament were co-opted.

So for example if Joseph Muscat needed to get in parliament to be the Leader of the Opposition (not only MLP Leader i.e., since to be Leader of the Opposition you have to be in parliament), he'd have to be co-opted (i.e. be an MP without having received any votes), in this case instead of another guy who'll resign his place.

[yancho]

Ok let's start with the "co-opted" definition... by co-opting it means that you pinpoint fingers who you want to take your place... note the "you": technically speaking it has to be no interest of the party and be just your own choice but moving down from utopia, it depends on the party. this means also that the person u choose to replace you need not run for the elections, and is based on this supposition : voters trust me = i trust x = voters trust x.

Differs to Bi-election. This is when an MP gets two seats, he has to drop one for another member who didn't make it to the parliament in the counts. This candidate has to run for the elections and will be chosen depending on the vote counts. Despite many think this process is just done only in the post-election period, before the max two months of Parliament opening, it is not always the case. When a candidate resigns, due to health matters, he can opt for leaving the decision to the electorate, and asks the Electoral Commission to fill his post by another candidate. Remember votes are never destroyed, so they will re open the boxes and elect another candidate.

Peroxide / Wolverine / screwhead, as you know, I am quite involved with PN, I am involved in their delegates body too, so it would be extremely hard for me to vote MLP. Not going to sound floating or something if I say I would vote MLP but rather a big lier. I already said this some other time(s). The only reason I can think of voting labour for is if PN attacks my own values, if PN moves away from its own values, if PN turns out to be the MLP I dislike. Until then I will give my support to PN, not in a "sports definition" as Avaloner presented but as a person pooling ideas in the party.

Hanfus : Abela didn't leave in the time of need : he said : let us avoid this problem, let us not put a project vote as our own vote of trust. He also said : This is my idea, and I am not ready to act as I agree with it if I don't. So if we decide to go for a vote of trust, which I am sure it will serve us alot of elections (he was right!), I am not ready to be part of this team anylonger.

killfr0g : truth be told I am already impressed about this legislature that PN is governing. For me this is an election MLP lost, not one which PN won. MLP had everything in their advantage, small parties ripping off some votes of PN, 20 years of Government of PN, winning all the minor elections, started the campaign with such a majority, seen up to 8% figures surpassing PN. Yet they still lost it. Why? Alot of the electorate was afraid of Sant's lead. What does this have to do with your question you might ask? Alot!

PN people who are not as attached to PN as I or Daphne might be, (though Daphne is not even a tesserata apparently), stand to be corrected, will be more attracted to a person similar to the one they trust, but want a change in the faces. The closer MLPs leader is to PN way of doing things, I guess the less of "sporting advantage" PN has. So using your words Avaloner I am shooting myself in the foot.

The thing that interests me is this : MLP's Leader is going to be Malta's new PM (99.9%). So I really am interested in having a leader who knows what he is doing. This election, on Sunday morning, when for some time it started looking bad for PN, I wasn't saying : shit we lost but god forbids Sant rules, because for me Sant is a hopeless leader. He is a person who is extremely intelligent, but is just a book worm.

[ki||fr0g]

Ok let's start with the "co-opted" definition... by co-opting it means that you pinpoint fingers who you want to take your place... note the "you": technically speaking it has to be no interest of the party and be just your own choice but moving down from utopia, it depends on the party. this means also that the person u choose to replace you need not run for the elections, and is based on this supposition : voters trust me = i trust x = voters trust x.

Differs to Bi-election. This is when an MP gets two seats, he has to drop one for another member who didn't make it to the parliament in the counts. This candidate has to run for the elections and will be chosen depending on the vote counts. Despite many think this process is just done only in the post-election period, before the max two months of Parliament opening, it is not always the case. When a candidate resigns, due to health matters, he can opt for leaving the decision to the electorate, and asks the Electoral Commission to fill his post by another candidate. Remember votes are never destroyed, so they will re open the boxes and elect another candidate.

Peroxide / Wolverine / screwhead, as you know, I am quite involved with PN, I am involved in their delegates body too, so it would be extremely hard for me to vote MLP. Not going to sound floating or something if I say I would vote MLP but rather a big lier. I already said this some other time(s). The only reason I can think of voting labour for is if PN attacks my own values, if PN moves away from its own values, if PN turns out to be the MLP I dislike. Until then I will give my support to PN, not in a "sports definition" as Avaloner presented but as a person pooling ideas in the party.

Hanfus : Abela didn't leave in the time of need : he said : let us avoid this problem, let us not put a project vote as our own vote of trust. He also said : This is my idea, and I am not ready to act as I agree with it if I don't. So if we decide to go for a vote of trust, which I am sure it will serve us alot of elections (he was right!), I am not ready to be part of this team anylonger.

killfr0g : truth be told I am already impressed about this legislature that PN is governing. For me this is an election MLP lost, not one which PN won. MLP had everything in their advantage, small parties ripping off some votes of PN, 20 years of Government of PN, winning all the minor elections, started the campaign with such a majority, seen up to 8% figures surpassing PN. Yet they still lost it. Why? Alot of the electorate was afraid of Sant's lead. What does this have to do with your question you might ask? Alot!

PN people who are not as attached to PN as I or Daphne might be, (though Daphne is not even a tesserata apparently), stand to be corrected, will be more attracted to a person similar to the one they trust, but want a change in the faces. The closer MLPs leader is to PN way of doing things, I guess the less of "sporting advantage" PN has. So using your words Avaloner I am shooting myself in the foot.

The thing that interests me is this : MLP's Leader is going to be Malta's new PM (99.9%). So I really am interested in having a leader who knows what he is doing. This election, on Sunday morning, when for some time it started looking bad for PN, I wasn't saying : shit we lost but god forbids Sant rules, because for me Sant is a hopeless leader. He is a person who is extremely intelligent, but is just a book worm.

Agreed on all points but let's say George Abela is elected and he leads the MLP in a fashion similar to the PN ideals, like you are saying. Then why would PN supporters and floaters vote MLP? There's no incentivefor change.. remember that change is still wanted by many, they just didn't want Sant to be the leader of that change.

So the MLP imo should elect a leader which will work more closely with the PN but will still have an agenda for change. I believe Muscat is the only person who can achieve this and who has support from all camps.

[scarface]

Hanfus : Abela didn't leave in the time of need : he said : let us avoid this problem, let us not put a project vote as our own vote of trust. He also said : This is my idea, and I am not ready to act as I agree with it if I don't. So if we decide to go for a vote of trust, which I am sure it will serve us alot of elections (he was right!), I am not ready to be part of this team anylonger.


"This is my idea, and I am not ready to act as I agree with it if I don't."

Int onestament temmen li kull MP jaqbel f KULL decizjoni??!! ma nippruvawx inpingu l-hajja ideali. Allahares kulhadd jamel bhalu.



killfr0g : truth be told I am already impressed about this legislature that PN is governing. For me this is an election MLP lost, not one which PN won. MLP had everything in their advantage, small parties ripping off some votes of PN, 20 years of Government of PN, winning all the minor elections, started the campaign with such a majority, seen up to 8% figures surpassing PN. Yet they still lost it. Why? Alot of the electorate was afraid of Sant's lead. What does this have to do with your question you might ask? Alot!


Il-pajjiz kien miexi l-quddiem ukoll Yancho ax f 20 sena l-PN kellu cans jitallem hafna. Plus li meta amel certu affarijiet bhal gholla l-vat al 18%, surcharges, mess stipendji, ma sabx l-istess rezistenza li kien sab Alfred Sant meta amel affarijiet simieli. Jigifieri overall l-elezzjoni li ghaddiet xorta kienet balanced imo ghax affarijiet bhal EU u smart city kienu pozittivi al Malta, u kulhadd ajnejh f wiccu.


The thing that interests me is this : MLP's Leader is going to be Malta's new PM (99.9%). So I really am interested in having a leader who knows what he is doing. This election, on Sunday morning, when for some time it started looking bad for PN, I wasn't saying : shit we lost but god forbids Sant rules, because for me Sant is a hopeless leader. He is a person who is extremely intelligent, but is just a book worm.Whilst I cannot disagree with you, I never judged Sant for anything except for his "partnership rebah". IMO he cannot be judged on the first 2 yrs which reflect bad for any government. So for me there was no reason to be afraid of him.

[ki||fr0g]

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20080403/local/mlp-leadership-hopefuls-asked-not-to-speak-to-the-press

Thursday, 3rd April 2008 - 18:26CET
MLP leadership hopefuls ordered not to speak to the press

The electoral commission overseeing the process for the election of Labour Party leader has written to all those showing an interest in contesting the election, asking them not to give comments to the press.

The letter, signed by Joe Falzon, chairman of the commission, is dated April 1 but is being taken seriously by the candidates.

In it, Mr Falzon says he has been asked by the chairmen of the MLP Vigilance and Disciplinary Board and the Appeals Board to tell those who are showing an interest in the election not to have contacts with the press.

Former deputy leader George Abela, who has indicated he may contest the election, has publicly protested over the order, saying that it would amount to an advantage to candidates who have already declared their candidature.

He also complained that the commission is considering whether to declare that he cannot contest the election because he is not a party delegate.

He said there had been no such objections when he stood for deputy leader in 1992.

Dr Abela said he will announce his decision on whether or not to contest the election at the appropriate time, but he is calling for a level playing field for all the candidates.

I don't get MLP's behaviour here.. I would have let all candidtaes discuss freely what they think on any medium. It does hurt the party if candidates start over doing it with criticism but it's healthy at the same time for our democracy. If you look at the US, with the fight between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama (both Democrats), they really got the people interested, although at the same time they are afraid that this harsh competition will harm the Democratic party when they come to the November elections.

From what I understand the MLP Vigilance and Disciplinary Board is made up of a bunch of old timers who I doubt understand their situation..

[johnmaclane]

Ye i find it a stupid move too, the more open the betta

[yancho]

http://maltesepolitics.blogspot.com/2008/04/silenzio-stampa-says-italians.html

Commented on it as well :) (ifhem with a bit of irony too :D)

[ki||fr0g]

http://maltesepolitics.blogspot.com/2008/04/silenzio-stampa-says-italians.html

Commented on it as well :) (ifhem with a bit of irony too :D)

Imma dak l-ingliz Yancho, ma niflahx naqra lol :p nahseb ahjar tamilha bil-Malti

[yancho]

Imma dak l-ingliz Yancho, ma niflahx naqra lol :p nahseb ahjar tamilha bil-Malti

u le suppost mhux hafna zbalji :D li zgur ha nibda nikteb fil-word forsi ma nghamilx kazzati u nivvinta aktar kliem :D

[GeneralOneBall]

Nahseb jien in nazzjonalisti l-iktar li jibzghu minn abela u alhekk qed jimbuttawh ha jkun hemm opposite reaction minnghand mlp supporters?

Am I being paranoid, maybe so but makes sense, for me he would be the best candidate to win cause of the qulities yancho said.

[wolverine]

So a sincere message to MLCP : Leave leading to who is born a leader, and has a vision. Same message should go to the rest of the candidates, and leave George Abela with keys to success. If I ever has to live under a Labour Government, I surely hope he will be the leader. Any other options are utterly useless.

din li l PN jissuportjaw daqshekk il george abela tinten, pn ma jissaprtjaw qatt lil xi hadd li se jmexxi tajjeb kontrijom
iridu l george abela sabiex hafna jitilqu minn mal labour u jitkisser kollox
mumiex jibzaw minn george abela ax hu kien jaqbel mahhom u jahsbu mhux se jamlilom opposizzjoni ghax sa ftit ilu jaqbel mahhom kien
li kieku vera salvatur, mumiex se jejnuh tejd

[GeneralOneBall]

keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

He will appeal extremely to the floaters. This is what mlp has to see dawk il 47% ha jergaq jivvutaw mlp no fukin doubt

[wolverine]

minn dawk il 47% hemm min ma jivvotax jekk ikun hemm george abela filwaqt li jivvutaw mlp jamlu min jamlu hliefu

tal pn iridu jaraw kif se jtellfu mill laburisti li ga hemm, u gorg abela soluzzjoni
vera salvatur bhalma qalet it times, salvatur tahhom imma

[ki||fr0g]

Nahseb jien in nazzjonalisti l-iktar li jibzghu minn abela u alhekk qed jimbuttawh ha jkun hemm opposite reaction minnghand mlp supporters?

Am I being paranoid, maybe so but makes sense, for me he would be the best candidate to win cause of the qulities yancho said.

Abela would certainly steal a lot of floating and PN votes, so your reasoning is not flawed at all. But so would Muscat imo.. I mean MLP are bound to increase their votes next election just because Sant isn't in the picture anymore, regardless of who's leading. Abela will win more floaters but risk alienating MLPers, and Muscat will attract less floaters but make the MLP base even stronger. Remember there are MLPers who don't vote because of Sant. Overall I think Muscat would be worse to the PN so they push George abela.

[Cereal Killer]

Abela would certainly steal a lot of floating and PN votes, so your reasoning is not flawed at all. But so would Muscat imo.. I mean MLP are bound to increase their votes next election just because Sant isn't in the picture anymore, regardless of who's leading. Abela will win more floaters but risk alienating MLPers, and Muscat will attract less floaters but make the MLP base even stronger. Remember there are MLPers who don't vote because of Sant. Overall I think Muscat would be worse to the PN so they push George abela.

fucken right

[wolverine]

Quote:
“Would I consider going out for general elections? Definitely not. You see, I have another theory that to stand for the general elections you must be either a robber, a missionary or just plain crazy. I don’t think I’m any of these. And I don’t really like the local system where you find yourself standing against candidates who have the same ideology as you do.”
Source : Malta Today - 6, January 2002


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